<incom> Re: incom-l Digest, Vol 30, Issue 15

[tabeles at attglobal.net]

Hi Scott

1) I agree with you that there are problems in the US regarding the social
security and tax situation, in general and particularly with regards to
"undocumented" or "illegals" who pay but will never see benefits. This is
wrapped, of course, into the entire issue of what to do about the
differential between those who enter the country through regular channels
and those who come across through extra-legal means. The taxation issue can
not be considered or settled separate from resolution, here- the larger
issue.

It would be interesting to understand the sensibilities of those outside
the US borders, particularly in Mexico and points "south". It seems that,
at the present, those who pay taxes and social security but don't fully
received current or future benefits seem willing to pay and still are able
to remit. 

Such assymetrical treatment has happened with many immigrants to the US and
other countries globally and throughout time. This, of course, does not
justify the practice any more than it justifies discrimination such as
received in the US by Chinese, Descendents of slaves, or those of
particular religious persuasion.

How to deal with this issue, globally, seems to be a question with no clear
answers. It is much more than just differentiating folks economically as
the term "elite" connotes. Even in the best of times under the most
idealistic situations, there have been few sustaining examples of
egalitarian societies.

This has been the latest, greatest hope of those promoting ICT's- a
technological solution to an intractable social problem.

The taxation issue in the US seems to be a surrogate for a larger problem,
globally.

2) I agree with you that remittances are playing a role as change agent and
will play a greater role. It is clear that the significant influx of cash,
as a percentage of income from external sources and a growing percentage of
the disposable income, in country, is having an impact in Mexico and
Central America.

Into whose hands is this resource falling and how do they choose to use
such funds. It has not been possible in the past to redistribute the wealth
prior to the influx of remittances. Why single out remittances when it is
now in the hands of many, who, in the past never had a voice and can now
use such resources to obtain such a political purchase?

Like the taxation/social security issue in the US, the problem is much
larger. The elite have resisted voices for social change. Perchance is
there the hope that the remittance resources can be influenced to support
such a movement? Should this be done by advocacy or by some legislative
action.

Since the legislative action is controlled by the "old guard", one needs to
be careful because they may get their wish but in a form that was not
anticipated. This was a caveat issued to the organic movements in the US
when they called for government oversight for organic standards which
actually allowed products that the organic movement had to accept when they
went the government route.

We are living in interesting times watching left-of-center governments
emerging in Latin America. The Mexican election should prove even more
interesting. The question, of course, is whether these will lead to the
fundamental changes which will move the issues raised by remittances.

What is clear is that neo-classical economics is loosing its grip on the
political decision making. What is unclear is what type of heterodox model
will arise and what this will imply. We are backing into a new frontier
where the new fiscal resources seem, initially, to be directed to
satisfying pentup demand to participate in the old economy and that need,
it seems, must run its course before there will be an emergence. 

thoughts?

tom

Original Message:
-----------------
From: Scott S Robinson ssr at laneta.apc.org
Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2006 07:15:05 -0500
To: incom-l at incommunicado.info
Subject: <incom> Re: incom-l Digest, Vol 30, Issue 15



Reply to Tom Abeles
Remittances and Development

Thank you Tom Abeles for generating more discussion of this complex topic
germane to many national economies throughout the world today.  I must state
I DO NOT AGREE with your concluding comment: "The issue seems to be to
separate the remittances from the social change and not put the issue of
social
change on the backs of those who have gone "North" in order to create income
to support their families."

Why do I not agree?  1) because the national 
diasporas are themselves collective
political statements by the disenfranchised by global capital markets and
their
impacts; 2) remittance transfers homeward are 
reconfiguring local political economies
as traditional patron-client relationships wither 
in the face of more cash, however meager,
in the hands of local citizens who not only do 
not trust traditional politics, but can now
afford some services on their own; and 3) 
returning migrants are running for office and
winning, throughout Mesoamerica -- Mexico to 
Nicaragua, and their value systems, pride,
acquired skills and self-esteem will refashion 
the rules in many local municipios over time.
In a phrase, remittance and social change are 
bound together and best we understand the
whys and dynamics of this ongoing process.

Re your other two points:

A) Taxing remittance transfers, as already 
proposed in pending legislation in Georgia and
Arizona, USA, would be an act of extreme 
hypocrisy, coherent with the Bush administration's
position on many issues.  My opinion is colored 
by what was a revelation for me regarding the
EARNINGS SUSPENSE FUND at the US Social Security 
Administration, as reported in the
New York Times last year.  Migrants, legal and 
undocumented, already pay many taxes.

BUSINESS/FINANCIAL DESK | April 5, 2005, Tuesday

Illegal Immigrants Are Bolstering Social Security With Billions

By EDUARDO PORTER (NYT) 1746 words
Late Edition - Final , Section A , Page 1 , Column 1

ABSTRACT - About seven million illegal immigrant 
workers in United States are providing Social Security
system with subsidy of as much as $7 billion a 
year through payroll taxes withheld from their wages, but
they will not be eligible for public pensions in 
retirement; their contributions to Social Security add up to
10 percent of last year's surplus; money paid by 
illegal workers and their employers is factored into all
Social Security Administration's projections; 
many illegal workers buy fake ID packages that include
Social Security card; that provides cover for 
their employers, who could be fined for knowingly hiring illegal
immigrants under law passed in 1986; Social 
Security Administration receives flood of W-2 earnings reports
with incorrect--sometimes fictitious--Social 
Security numbers; it stashes them in 'earnings suspense file' that
has been mushrooming, now totaling $189 billion; 
Social Security officials suspect that large portion of
suspense file corresponds to earnings of illegal 
immigrants; illegal immigrants see Social Security withholding
taxes as price of working in US; retirement does 
not enter picture for them; photos; graph (M)  {end NYT quote}

B) Elite control of the public policy process in 
Mexico is beyond dispute, to my mind.  And I would
argue opening up the policy review and reform 
process is a major pending priority throughout Latin
America.  The ample discussions about 
telecommunications regulatory policies restricted to the big
players and sweetheart deals for the 
multinationals operating and selling product in the region should
be evidence of this scenario.  As well, the 
limited "consultas" re future digital inclusion issues before
the recent WSIS dual round provides still more 
ethnography of elite controls.  We must not forget that
elites in the Latino states are themselves 
threatened by certain aspects of globalization, including their
obsession with shaping their respective national 
ideologies through control and/or ownership of radio
and television media.  Mexico may be a case study.

Scott S. Robinson
www.uam-antropologia.info
México, D.F.













>Today's Topics:
>
>    1.  Remittances and development (Scott S Robinson)
>    2. RE:  Remittances and development (tabeles at attglobal.net)
>
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>Message: 1
>Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2006 14:00:46 -0500
>From: Scott S Robinson <ssr at laneta.apc.org>
>Subject: <incom> Remittances and development
>To: incom-l at incommunicado.info
>Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20060624133823.02500da0 at laneta.apc.org>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed
>
>I thank Steve Cisler for hauling me on stage to comment
>on remittances, ICTs and development.  There is a growing,
>even boisterous discussion around the argument that increased
>remittance flows can and do lead to some form of development
>for migrants' families "back home".  While remittance transfer are
>a lucrative business for a few, their growing pace also relieves political
>pressure for demand on social services.  Research indicates that 90%
>of these funds are devoted to consumption, and the remaining 10%
>often as well, because trustworthy, culturally appropriate and user-
>friendly investment options are absent.  The challenge is to tailor
>ICTs to generate decision support tools that assist migrants, their
>families and organizations, microfinance institutions as well as gov't
>agencies to channel some of these potential savings into worthwhile
>and sustainable projects.  To date, there are few signs that elites who
>control the public policy decision making process inside Latin American
>gov'ts and their cousins in the international financial institutions (read:
>World Bank and Inter-American Development Bank) are paying much
>attention to these opportunities.
>
>Scott S. Robinson
>www.uam-antropologia.info
>www.latam.ufl.edu/news/conf-papers/robinsonpaperforconf06.pdf
>
>México, D.F.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >Today's Topics:
> >
> >    1. Re:  icts and remittances  (Steve Cisler)
> >
> >
> >----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >Message: 1
> >Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 05:08:10 -0700 (PDT)
> >From: Steve Cisler <sacisler at yahoo.com>
> >Subject: Re: <incom> icts and remittances
> >To: Geert Lovink <geert at xs4all.nl>, incom-l at incommunicado.info
> >Message-ID: <20060619120810.83900.qmail at web33211.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
> >
> >Remittances have captured the interest of many people
> >on all parts of the political spectrum, and Ford
> >Foundation gave money for some grass roots groups to
> >look at the issue and the kinds of services they
> >provided, esp. computer access.
> >
> >Because of criticism, at least for Latin American
> >traffic, major institutions have lowered costs of
> >moving money securely from US/Canada to many parts of
> >Latin America, and there are alternative schemes to
> >use telecenters to do this even more cheaply.
> >
> >I think Scott Robinson (on this list) could make
> >extensive comments about the effects remittances have
> >had on national budgets/efforts to address regional
> >problems. He has been talking about this and writing
> >on the subject for ten years or so.
> >
> >--- Geert Lovink <geert at xs4all.nl> wrote:
> >
> > > (For me, the remittance story naturally fits into
> > > the larger picture of
> > > ICT4D. As the rich history of Western Union, est.
> > > 1864, shows, the
> > > telco business and sending money, info about markets
> > > and money, have
> > > been linked from the early days. Is more Internet,
> > > phones and
> > > telecenters inevitably going to mean more an even
> > > larger global
> > > remittance industries? Geert)
> > >
> > > http://www.worldchanging.com/archives/004564.html
> > >
> > > Remittances | Alex Steffen
> > > QuickChanges see all posts in this category
> > >
> > > In some African countries, Christopher Lydon reminds
> > > us on his show
> > > Radio Open Source, money sent home from abroad now
> > > makes up a quarter
> > > of the Gross National Product. We're covered
> > > remittances before (and
> > > some of the innovations being tested to make helping
> > > the homeland
> > > easier), but this show is a fabulous introductory
> > > overview of the
> > > concept and the controversies:
> > >
> > > Migrant workers will remit more than $232 billion to
> > > their families
> > > this year. The money migrant workers earn —
> > > harvesting produce in
> > > California, cleaning houses in Singapore, and
> > > tending children in
> > > Kuwait­ is meager by the standards of the developed
> > > world, but it means
> > > everything for their families back home. $232
> > > billion is twice what the
> > > world paid out in international aid last year; in
> > > Latin America it was
> > > more than aid and foreign direct investment
> > > combined. This is big
> > > business, and economists are just starting to take
> > > notice.
> > >
> > > This year, the LA Times has been running a series of
> > > articles on
> > > remittances, calling them “The New Foreign Aid.”
> > > Policy makers like
> > > this line­ they like to shrug off questions about
> > > the slim foreign aid
> > > budget by coupling those numbers with the huge sums
> > > of money that
> > > workers are remitting home. It’s all going to the
> > > same place, right?
> > >
> > > Posted by Alex Steffen at June 12, 2006 04:48 PM |
> > > TrackBack
> > >
> > >
> >End of incom-l Digest, Vol 30, Issue 12
> >***************************************
>
>Message: 2
>Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2006 18:15:53 -0400
>From: "tabeles at attglobal.net" <tabeles at attglobal.net>
>Subject: RE: <incom> Remittances and development
>To: ssr at laneta.apc.org, incom-l at incommunicado.info
>Message-ID: <380-220066624221553671 at M2W014.mail2web.com>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
>Hi Scott
>
>Since I have been following this arena and your concerns for some time and
>experienced the remittances both from the US and within recipient
>countries, questions have come to my mind for which I ask your thoughts and
>those in the larger development community:
>
>1)The monies which are sent home are done so freely by the folks in the
>north. There has been talk in several countries considering taxing these or
>turning these toward some public good and the response seems to be that if
>this were to be done, the money would flow through different channels to
>avoid such an attempt to "hijack" funds which are focused on bettering the
>recipients, if only through increased consumption.
>
>I believe the example you gave of remittances going for a town clock is one
>example where one might see community health as a better use.
>
>Thus, the question has to do more with who makes the decision on how this
>money should be spent and is one of the battle grounds in the US on cutting
>taxes, social welfare and similar issues and raises the spectre of
>neo-Marxism and those such as George Orwell and others who wrote against
>the socialist movements. It is a concern in the current Mexican elections
>given the two major candidates for president
>
>2) The question of the "elite" control has been raised eloquently by
>Hernando DeSoto, the Peruvian economist and seems less of an "elite" issue
>than a cumbersome set of archaic laws which even the current left-leaning
>governments arising in South and Central America have not been able to
>overcome
>
>3) At one time, the issue was the high cost of remittances transfers. Since
>the amount of money flowing through the system has attracted the regular
>banking system, competition and regulation seems to be on track to making
>these adjust to a competitive market.
>
>The bottom line seems to me to convince those whose money it is that they
>need to develop a set of values which are congruent with the social change
>agents working to deal with the large differences between the rich and the
>poor. But that seems to be an issue, globally and until that happens in,
>for example, the United States, it may not be possible elsewhere.
>
>The issue seems to be to separate the remittances from the social change
>and not put the issue of social change on the backs of those who have gone
>"North" in order to create income to support their families
>
>thoughts?
>
>tom abeles
>
>Original Message:
>-----------------
>From: Scott S Robinson ssr at laneta.apc.org
>Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2006 14:00:46 -0500
>To: incom-l at incommunicado.info
>Subject: <incom> Remittances and development
>
>
>I thank Steve Cisler for hauling me on stage to comment
>on remittances, ICTs and development.  There is a growing,
>even boisterous discussion around the argument that increased
>remittance flows can and do lead to some form of development
>for migrants' families "back home".  While remittance transfer are
>a lucrative business for a few, their growing pace also relieves political
>pressure for demand on social services.  Research indicates that 90%
>of these funds are devoted to consumption, and the remaining 10%
>often as well, because trustworthy, culturally appropriate and user-
>friendly investment options are absent.  The challenge is to tailor
>ICTs to generate decision support tools that assist migrants, their
>families and organizations, microfinance institutions as well as gov't
>agencies to channel some of these potential savings into worthwhile
>and sustainable projects.  To date, there are few signs that elites who
>control the public policy decision making process inside Latin American
>gov'ts and their cousins in the international financial institutions (read:
>World Bank and Inter-American Development Bank) are paying much
>attention to these opportunities.
>
>Scott S. Robinson
>www.uam-antropologia.info
>www.latam.ufl.edu/news/conf-papers/robinsonpaperforconf06.pdf
>
>México, D.F.

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